tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post400753830681655354..comments2024-03-18T09:46:09.727-04:00Comments on Girlfriends Book Club: Beautiful, Difficult ChangeWriter Wenchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16730769794553260336noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-2754848458769656892012-08-27T10:04:13.242-04:002012-08-27T10:04:13.242-04:00Sub-standard books only fuel the self-publishing s...<em>Sub-standard books only fuel the self-publishing stigma. </em><br /><br />So true, Heather. Those ambassadors can help to lift that stigma. We just need more of them!Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-36211956578110298932012-08-27T05:37:31.915-04:002012-08-27T05:37:31.915-04:00Therese,
Thank you for putting into words exactly ...Therese,<br />Thank you for putting into words exactly what I've been thinking. I'm all for self-publishing, but wish more writers wouldn't hit the publish button until their book was well and truly ready. There's no denying that a lot of self-published books are released before they should be. You can’t run before you learn to walk and it feels as if short cuts are being taken by a lot of writers who choose the self-publishing route. What they don't understand is that they aren't doing themselves any favours, nor are they helping the credibility of the self-publishing industry. It saddens me that some incredibly talented self-published authors might get passed over because there’s so much noise out there and so much competition. Sub-standard books only fuel the self-publishing stigma. With so many books fighting for attention by both traditional and self-published authors, why wouldn’t writers want to make their books the best it could possibly be? Self-publishing is a business, and for a business to succeed, some investment is needed. In the case of publishing, this investment comes by hiring editors, designing a professional cover, and producing the best possible work they can. Thank you to those who do! The problem is it's getting harder and harder to find those books in a mass of poorly produced books. As a reader, I get a bit fed up with having to slog through a dozen self-published work to find one diamond in the rough. Like you, my to be read list is already toppling over. For that reason, I tend to rely on word of mouth and reviews (although I even find it hard to trust reviews any more). Yes, there are traditionally published books that are full of errors, plot holes, and seemed rushed, but in my experience, those are fewer and far between than in the self-publishing industry. <br /><br />Heather Reidhttp://www.heatherlreid.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-39000676899963576422012-08-26T17:14:41.544-04:002012-08-26T17:14:41.544-04:00I will also add: for me personally, if I am sick o...<em>I will also add: for me personally, if I am sick of my book too soon, then it's a sign I need to fix it better.</em><br /><br />Love this, Kathryn! "Fix it better." I'm going to remember that one.Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-79885734835811496382012-08-26T17:13:11.721-04:002012-08-26T17:13:11.721-04:00And, if I may?-- This also extends to traditional ...<em>And, if I may?-- This also extends to traditional publishing. </em><br /><br />Oh, it does, definitely. When my sister falls for an author, she buys all of their books. She's mentioned being let down by a former favorite more than once. It's hard to know what's behind that drop in quality. It might be overconfidence or complacency on the author's part, but it could also be a hungry industry (and fans) pushing the author to turn in work ASAP, before it's truly ready. But I know it's a problem.<br /><br />Thanks for your super kind words, Denise. Much appreciated!Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-58560009231732418012012-08-26T15:43:12.540-04:002012-08-26T15:43:12.540-04:00"Write that book." I got goosebumps. Tha..."Write that book." I got goosebumps. That's the real goal-- right? The idea/premise, the talent, and the soul, sweat, and tears that go into mixing those qualities in right measures are for nothing if the polishing is sub-par. I have not considered the "trust" as an unwritten code, but it is. It absolutely is.<br /><br />As usual, you have placed your very articulate typing fingers right on the heart of an important issue. It's not just the purchase price, but, as you say, the investment of precious time that is given to each read. I might stumble over style, but fundamental errors of craft are unacceptable. <br /><br />And, if I may?-- This also extends to traditional publishing. Too many celebrated and beloved authors are "given their head" (a horsey term) once established. I will not name names, but it is also a breaking of trust for an established author, once having earned that trust with the aid of a qualified publishing team, to, in future publications, assume his popularity supersedes the necessity of his team's advice.<br /><br />I have spent many hours investing in epics only to walk away because the structure has fallen apart and the story has become a weedy path of uncertain destination. <br /><br />Thank you for another insightful and well-crafted post, Therese. Your gift for the written word is a well-honed tool whether for entertainment or teaching.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18331283437980529293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-77154360746172764102012-08-26T15:25:06.781-04:002012-08-26T15:25:06.781-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18331283437980529293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-48142977447802844572012-08-26T15:14:46.973-04:002012-08-26T15:14:46.973-04:00So happy to have discovered this blog and all you ...So happy to have discovered this blog and all you wonderful writers! Thanks for all the wisdom! cindyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-36142978125876736682012-08-26T14:46:50.511-04:002012-08-26T14:46:50.511-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18331283437980529293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-57164400629565234072012-08-26T10:46:00.685-04:002012-08-26T10:46:00.685-04:00*laughing~* Let the double-danged editing movement...*laughing~* Let the double-danged editing movement begin!<br /><br />But you are correct - the constant reading and re-reading and reading again can have us going "ungh! Enough all ready!" I will say that happened more before I was published than after - because that need, that drive, that GOAL of having your first book Out There is so strong, it's difficult to have patience - much easier for patience to come once you have a book or two or more out!<br /><br />I will also add: for me personally, if I am sick of my book too soon, then it's a sign I need to fix it better. The "sick of it" has to come at a certain point in the editing process, and I know where that is. If it comes before that, then I have more work to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-42414592618223661672012-08-26T09:33:00.276-04:002012-08-26T09:33:00.276-04:00Kathryn! You've hit on the moment, I think, wh...Kathryn! You've hit on the moment, I think, when self-publishing authors will have to make a choice -- when they hit the "god, let this book be finished already" stage of writerly fatigue. It must happen to everyone, right? It definitely has happened to me. And depending on the book, how much it asked of you along the way--both in time and in pure marrow--you may feel you cannot do another bloody thing for it. That's not the time to publish it. That’s the time to call in fresh eyes, to help you see the eraser bits you’ve left all over the page but can no longer see because you’re wiped out. While the fresh eyes are poring (not pouring) over your pages, you rest, then retackle that sucker when you’re refreshed. <br /><br />I think we should call it double-danged editing in your honor, Kathryn, because it's so charming maybe the process would feel less grueling!<br />Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-49881231825095167022012-08-26T09:19:57.404-04:002012-08-26T09:19:57.404-04:00Good production, like good writing, is invisible a...<em>Good production, like good writing, is invisible and doesn't get in the book's way.</em><br /><br />This. Yes, yes, yes.<br /><br />If you were tackling a huge painting, you might draw grid marks on the page to help keep everything in perspective. But when you're finished, you erase those lines, you tidy the whole thing up, refine it. In the writing world, un-invisible errors are like a work of art that still has grid marks all over it. They prevent you from appreciated the work as a whole. Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-9096752627612244432012-08-26T08:14:21.051-04:002012-08-26T08:14:21.051-04:00If I were to ever have a reason to self-publish, I...If I were to ever have a reason to self-publish, I'd want to make double-danged sure my book was "perfect" --- I do that now, even though I'm trad published - even before I send it to my editor at my publishers, it must be as perfect as I can get it. I do multiples of edits/go-throughs/re-writes - until I am at my deadline's back door! I have at least two readers read it - one of whom I know will catch things I may not catch - before it goes to my editor. And once at my publishers at deadline, it goes through copy editing and proofing and I look at it again before the final is sent to the printers. And even though I am also an editor, I know that I can't always see my own forest for the trees. <br /><br />What I worry with some self-published authors is that they are publishing "too soon" -before the novel is quite ready, before it is proofed, or edited, etc. I remember that feeling of "I just want this published so I can move on!" And that's where it can be tricky.<br /><br />By the way - love the image of you browsing in the store - ah book love! :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-63203012609989100672012-08-26T06:13:01.737-04:002012-08-26T06:13:01.737-04:00Thanks for the shout-out, Will!
Therese, you'...Thanks for the shout-out, Will! <br />Therese, you're right that every reader has different sensitivities. Some will forgive the missing inverted commas if the story rocks along, because that's what they bought the book for. Some find those errors unforgivable because it meant the publisher didn't care enough. Some can't stand split infinitives (you won't believe how many hours are spent in editorial offices discussing whether split infinitives are acceptable). But a book that has all of those things right will not offend anyone. Good production, like good writing, is invisible and doesn't get in the book's way. <br /><br />Of course it's time-consuming - which means it's expensive. Editors know this very well, but how are authors to know? An author who is published traditionally never sees the production bills and would be shocked at how they add up. An author who has never been published has even less reason to understand why they might spend hundreds of dollars on 'cosmetic fussiness'. Especially when there are a lot of sharks who want to make money out of self-published authors. <br /><br />So bravo for this post, Therese, and bravo to the writers cited here who are setting themselves high standards. <br /><br /> Roz Morris aka @Roz_Morris . Blog: Nail Your Novelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088813423467048081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-50797883626416563512012-08-25T21:06:23.958-04:002012-08-25T21:06:23.958-04:00Love this car example, Terry, and I couldn't a...Love this car example, Terry, and I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for your comment.Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-80760541926631426442012-08-25T21:05:05.665-04:002012-08-25T21:05:05.665-04:00Dee, thanks for confirming what I wondered over --...Dee, thanks for confirming what I wondered over -- the value of editor and copy-editor both. And bravo to you for demanding the same quality control for your book that any traditionally published author should have with their work. <br /><br />That Porter. What a good guy. Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-85884296072225872092012-08-25T21:03:04.398-04:002012-08-25T21:03:04.398-04:00Terry said what I would have. And it goes back to ...Terry said what I would have. And it goes back to what Roz said above too--that feeling of unease. <br /><br />Maybe it's simply that every reader's threshold for quality is unique; it likely is. What I need to see on the page to feel comfortable, to believe that I'm in the hands of an author I can trust with my emotions (because it is an intimate experience), is different from what others need. To each his own. But, as an author, don't you want to appeal to the largest pool of readers, including those readers who care about the details/typos/wrong turns of speech? Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-20102355010991767922012-08-25T18:57:36.783-04:002012-08-25T18:57:36.783-04:00In response to E.B.'s question of "why th...In response to E.B.'s question of "why the little things matter," I'd say it's because when you create a book, you want readers to be involved in the story. A good writer will want others to think that he/she has mastered the craft. <br /><br />If you were buying a new car and found one on the lot that looked wonderful with the exception of a few paint chips in the hood or maybe a small crack in the windshield, would you still think as highly of it as you might the one next to it with no chips or other blemishes. Mechanically, the cars are identical, but the paint chips make you wonder, what else might be wrong? And, the process of stopping to wonder what else might be wrong detracts from your appreciation for what otherwise might be a beautiful piece of equipment. <br /><br />Also, I'd agree with Vaughn. Dee gets it. The fact that she hired an editor says that she's investing in her craft. Too many authors (self-pubbed as well as traditionally published) think "good enough" is good enough. I'm one of those who would disagree and wouldn't want to buy the car with the paint chips.Terry Ambrosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859532145979982213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-24749706627870210922012-08-25T18:25:57.478-04:002012-08-25T18:25:57.478-04:00Mahalo to Vaughn for his kind words about Haole Wo...Mahalo to Vaughn for his kind words about Haole Wood, which had an amazing editor, Dave Malone (@DZMalone) (referred by the awesome @Porter_Anderson) (so heck, yeah, I was scared)! Having a professional editor was the #1 best thing I’ve ever done (though I am working on a sequel filled with all the good stuff Dave cut out!). I also used a copy-editor after that. (And then uploaded two more versions as those pesky edits/errors kept coming.) Great post, Therese!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-75406421589440934382012-08-25T17:25:39.267-04:002012-08-25T17:25:39.267-04:00I agree that self-published writers should make th...I agree that self-published writers should make their work as polished as possible. I plan to self-publish and I had five beta readers read my work and also will be hiring an editor to look it over soon.<br /><br />BUT I never get why so many people obsess over the tiny things, like,"Wow, this person used a few too many exclamation points or this person misspelled a word." Why do those tiny mistakes you find on page three catapult you out of the story?<br /><br />I've read self-published novels and been drawn out of the story as well, but I was able to easily ignore any of those little mistakes. It was the plot holes and the bad research, so on and so forth that bothered me.<br /><br />It's not that big of deal, in my opinion, when someone forgets to put a period or something small like that (although I'm trying very hard to have none of those mistakes). Especially if it's only a couple of times that they forget. What I hate is the bigger mistakes. Those drive me up the wall because they're actually super important.E.B. Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03954156488722828443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-87562995412050395162012-08-25T17:01:46.775-04:002012-08-25T17:01:46.775-04:00Pored over.
Ha! I could claim I did that on purpo...<em>Pored over.</em><br /><br />Ha! I could claim I did that on purpose, to see who'd catch the error, but you'd be too wise for that I'm sure.<br /><br /><em>one can't hold one author responsible for others.</em><br /><br />Agreed. I'm not suggesting that, though; I'm saying be the self-published author worthy of being referenced in a post like this. Be a Roz Morris, Dee DeTarsio, Erika Liodice. Aren't we saying the same thing?<br /><br />Good luck with your press.<br /><br />Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-9832222098198841002012-08-25T16:43:33.098-04:002012-08-25T16:43:33.098-04:00Thanks for your comment, Kim. You know, I've p...Thanks for your comment, Kim. You know, I've probably limped through those same books. We'll have to talk...Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-80229007059814906832012-08-25T16:37:22.750-04:002012-08-25T16:37:22.750-04:00I've wondered the same, Mari. All I know is ho...I've wondered the same, Mari. All I know is how I respond to sloppy work as a reader. I have to believe there are other readers out there who are not writers who feel the same.Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-88663607218986979522012-08-25T16:30:10.681-04:002012-08-25T16:30:10.681-04:00I wonder if it's smart to hire both an editor ...I wonder if it's smart to hire both an editor and then a copy-editor for a self-pubbed work? They do different things, but they're both important. That hyphen business Roz mentioned above, for example, would more than likely be caught by a copy-editor. Keep the wallet at the ready, right? But they're expenses a trad publisher would bear.<br /><br />I agree with you and Roz that some self-pubbed author do get it, and I am so grateful to them. I'll have to check out Dee's Haole Wood; thanks for the tip. Another self-pubbed book I enjoyed was Erika Liodice's Empty Arms.Therese Walshhttp://theresewalsh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-70627643477150054322012-08-25T16:22:58.212-04:002012-08-25T16:22:58.212-04:00"I know that errors can be found in even trad..."I know that errors can be found in even traditionally published books—books that have been poured over by an editor and copy-editor . . ."<br /><br />Pored over. Funny considering the general, tongue-in-cheek rule that one will inevitably make an error when either discussing errors or commenting on one.<br /><br />"What I’d like to see during this time of transition is for writers who decide to self-publish to become ambassadors for all self-publishing authors."<br /><br />While I like this idea and agree to some extent, I think it's problematic. I certainly try to be an example to all authors, independent or otherwise, taking craft seriously and publishing the best books--by myself and others--I can. The thing is, though, that because it's independence, and because we're independent of each other, one can't hold one author responsible for others.<br /><br />There already exists a host of shining examples of independent authors who are producing quality work well. Often, they're the ones doing it quietly. They're likely not the Lockes and Hockings. The woman who commented here as dirtywhitecandy is one shining example. Martin Lastrapes is another (disclaimer: I published one of Martin's short stories through Exciting Press). They're there if you look for them.<br /><br />Which is my feeling as a reader: I've found more examples of more quality independent work in the past few years, since I purchased a Kindle, than I found quality work from big corporations in previous years. I remember I used to pick up books and read a handful of pages and then move along, again and again and again. I still do that to some degree, but there's so much more access to so many more options that I find I more often move along to something good. I've finished more books in the past few years than ever before. And I've been reading more independent work, lately, mostly because it tends to cost less, so I can try more. I think I tend to expect more or hope more from a book that costs $10 than a book that costs $4, which is probably why I'm so often so disappointed by the former and surprised by the latter.Will Entrekinhttp://willentrekin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2037419790609319671.post-73475764164238658822012-08-25T16:21:25.388-04:002012-08-25T16:21:25.388-04:00But when wrong they add up to a feeling of unease....<em>But when wrong they add up to a feeling of unease.</em><br /><br />That's it exactly, Roz. Unease. You sort of hold your breath for the first few pages until the writer does something--displays some form of mastery--that makes you realize you can trust them. And then you do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com